Greg and Aaron

Aaron wrote:

Greg, It became tedious a long time ago.

So why don’t you quit?

Anothermouse simply feels the need to validate the absoultist beliefs he came to by attacking the Freemasons…

See what I said below to Greg about absolutes.

If I join I have, in part, Anothermouse to thank.

As I mentioned to Greg below; I have made my case for the argument that a Christian can not be a Freemason. The choice is now yours as to what you do with it, and so will be the consequences. YOURS. I have done my part, warning you against it.

Greg wrote this comment,

Greg, your scant regard for concepts like, absolutes, faith, and “belief” leads me to believe that you might have been seduced by the new age, cop-out way of thinking called post-modernism, that is all the rage these days. That is just great Greg! If one does not understand something BY CHOICE because it does not suit you, or fit into what YOU WANT, just join the happy crowd that shouts; “it does not exist!” That is FOOL’S PARADISE, and you know it. Come on, wake up and smell the roses.

OK, so then your position then is not as a “Christian” but a “devout born-again Christian”, right

You see Greg, as I mentioned before. This whole argument; “Can a Christian be a Freemason?” really only concerns Christians and Freemasons. If you are neither, and/or not desirous to be either, this debate does not concern you, except perhaps if you find some entertainment value in it by joining into the fray. And if that is the case I can see well enough why the argument might become stale or tiring to you. And if that is the case, why bother? Quit. But if you are a Christian, you may want to pay attention and learn something.

What is a Christian? Many people call themselves Christians. MY definition of a CHRISTIAN, for the purposes of this debate, is a REAL CHRISTIAN. What is a REAL CHRISTIAN? Read Allan’s blog and see for yourself. Make your own judgment. If you judge yourself to be a REAL CHRISTIAN you WILL find the question; “Can a Christian be a Freemason?” of extreme importance to you and it WILL become obvious to you that you are in trouble! Of course, if that is not the case, you may very well continue to be ignorant of what is going on about you and just carry on your old ways.

…Is it just something you “believe”, something you feel strongly about?

Yes, I admitted to not knowing ALL. What I DO KNOW is this though; One can not continue to sin before God and then expect His mercy to enfold you on judgment day. I have clearly pointed out the sins of freemasonry. Now the ball is in your court. You can either accept it or reject it. The choice is yours, and you will have to live with the consequences of whatever you decide, as I am living with mine.

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2 Responses to “Greg and Aaron”

  1. mwubuntu Says:

    I am a Freemason and I can tell you from experience that I have never met a more reverent group of men in all my life than those who I gladly call my brothers. The degree of reverence in a Lodge meeting far surpasses anything I have ever felt in a Christian Church.

    Some key points for you to think about:

    It [Masonry] is quite simply a philosophical fraternity that accepts people of all faiths. If you have a problem with anyone belonging to a fraternity and being a christian, then you need to harangue and harass every member of a christian church who is also a member of a college Greek fraternity.

    Masonry explicitly tells us that it is NOT a religion and will not and cannot conflict with anyone who believes in one G-d.

    Masonry has nothing to do with the concepts of salvation. Those things are left between the person and his/her religion.

    I can already hear the rabid rhetoric of those reading this but rest assured, I will not see it. So, feel free to attack me, call me names, say I am stupid. I do not care because I understand that hatred is in your very nature unlike the saviour whom you say you worship.

  2. Greg Says:

    mouse, answer my questions from the past post. I’ve put them in here again for your reference.

    I’m curious too, what does your pastor think of your efforts here?

    Ok, on to your post…

    We do not quit, because you choose to continue expounding your narrow-minded insinuation that Freemasonry not open to Christianity, and so long as you like to continue, I would like to continue refuting you.

    You have given your OPINION for why a Christian cannot be a Freemason, you have given YOUR INTERPRETATION of why they cannot be one. You have not made your case. In fact, it seems you are failing to even answer the refutations back to you completely, which is a shame.

    I appreciate your warning me, but really, its more an alarmist rant than with any regard or concern. This is your “cross to bear” and your doing a good job. If this were with any love, then you’d be more open to dialog and less closed to really looking at what it is you are critiquing.

    Yes, I disregard absolutes. Show me a proof, show me some science, some tangible. i’ve heard the word of God in my ear, but i can’t PROVE IT TO YOU. And, I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but Post modernism is a movement to understand MODERNISM, not a cop out to a “new” interpretation of GOD. But i see in your answer that my reply has gotten under your skin a bit and made you a bit tender.

    You say:
    “If one does not understand something BY CHOICE because it does not suit you, or fit into what YOU WANT, just join the happy crowd that shouts; “it does not exist!” That is FOOL’S PARADISE”
    Isn’t this exactly what your doing when a Freemason says that your wrong? You expect some capitulation to what your world or heavenly view is? Funny you should mention roses, the Rosicrucian angle is a whole ‘nother thing.

    You said:
    as I mentioned before. This whole argument; “Can a Christian be a Freemason?” really only concerns Christians and Freemasons.

    No, my question was that your position comes from a “devout born-again Christian” position, not just a position of someone who “believes in Christ”. I believe in Christ,but not in the same way that you do, which is the whole foundation of your argument. Your way of the highway…

    I appreciate your willingness to make me quit. This is your house, throw me out if you are feeling uncomfortable at my argument. In the mean time, I’m here because I dislike what you are saying, and refute it, and will continue to do so. I’d also like you to answer all of the items I posted in the previous comment.

    Ah-Ha, finally, your definition of what a Christian is..oh wait, no definition…links and fingers to other peoples definitions. And again, judgmental in assuming I’m ignorant for not falling lock step in with you, arm in arm. I don’t buy it “brother”, I think your trying to convince yourself.

    You quoting me, questioning you:
    “…Is it just something you “believe”, something you feel strongly about?” “Yes, I admitted to not knowing ALL”

    If you don’t know it all, then you don’t know ANYTHING. Thats the point of Freemasonry, you don’t know it all, learn as much as you can, find out. What you see as sin is your degree of guilt for something, your need to reach out and tell others how wrong you were, so we must be wrong too. Your right, the choice is mine, and I am comfortable in that choice, and dislike you suggesting otherwise. I reject your perspective from your eyes. Yes, I do. I’d rather find the answers and make you accountable for yours.

    So, finish answering my questions. I’ve put them back here for easy reference.

    You:
    “Without faith one can not have a close relationship with Jesus”…
    As you see it, and through your faith. Someone with a different version of faith, or a different take on the doctrine can easily see it differently.

    You:
    “I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody comes to the farther but by me”
    Read the second to last word, by me. not through me, not because of me, but by me.

    You:
    “it IS an absolute”.
    This goes back to your faith, your “belief” is predicated on your faith in it. If that’s the case, the world was literally created in 6 days and is only 5000 years old, right? Christ started his church, which became the catholic church, right? Are you a catholic? If Christ started it, shouldn’t you follow that path, why have you deviated?

    You:
    “What is MY faith? Simply that Jesus is Lord and that He died for our sins.”.
    How do you know, besides a 1600 year old book that tells you that’s what happened? What if the part that was excised in the council of Nicea said something different? I don’t dispute your faith, I think it is a beautiful thing. What troubles me is your inability to see beyond what you believe to be absolute. Its judgmental and contradictory to the teachings of the bible. You forget that God himself, in the book you put your faith into, says that his house will be called a house of prayer for All people. It doesn’t just say for Christians, or Just for Christians that believe XYZ. it says “ALL PEOPLE”, but then maybe I’m reading it wrong.

    You refer to “HIM” frequently, is this HIM God, or Jesus, or in this instance are you blurring the difference and they are one and the same?

    You:
    “What I am saying is that one can not be a devout born-again Christian as well as being a Freemason simply because Freemasonry has unfortunately some deeply entrenched practices that are anti-Christian”
    OK, so then your position then is not as a “Christian” but a “devout born-again Christian”, right? Whats the difference in a good Episcopalian Christian, or a devout Roman Catholic Christian, or a serpent dancing pentecostal? Do you separate yourself from other Christians?

    You:
    “I definitely do not state that I know that at all. What I am saying is the following; Freemasonry contains and embraces certain anti-Christian practices that is an affront to God and to my view (and MANY others) this poses a serious risk to ones eternal destiny.”

    OK, this is a long one… If you “know” something is an affront, you know this, then how can you say in the same sentence that “to my view (and many others) this poses a serious risk”. But you just said you don’t know this? Is it just something you “believe”, something you feel strongly about?

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