Back at last

Friends, once again my apologies for taking some time to get back on-line. As I said before, I had a very hectic few days behind me, but at last; I’m back!

In reply to some of your comments.

Martin

Hallo again my brother and welcome back. Please accept my assurance that no mockery was intended. You say; I was seaking answers from God about the real purpose of this blog, because this bashing from a brother Christian did not make any sense at all.”

I thank God that you are looking for answers! My purpose with this blog is definitely NOT to bash masons as you put it. As a matter of fact, I hold all the masons I ever met in high esteem and it has never been my intention to harm or injure any of the brethren here. I am well aware that my efforts here might seem to many of you as a bashing exercise but please believe me when I say that it is not so intended at all. It is merely a warning, albeit a grave warning of the dangers Freemasonry poses the individual. These dangers are so well concealed and glossed over that the unsuspecting individual will have difficulty in spotting them (as is proof of the number of individuals still arguing the same points over and over).

You also say; “I came to the conclusion that this blog is based on the book “Ron Rhodes: Reasoning from the scriptures with Masons”

Alas, no. I have never seen that site before now. I did have a look at it and would indeed like to get a copy of Ron Rhodes’s book. This blog is not based on any book or any outside influence. It is my sincere message to masons everywhere to beware and take note of the spiritual dangers that freemasonry poses to the individual.

Greg

Thank you for your comment. I can see that you are serious about the issue and I respect your point of view, yet as a Christian and your brother I bear news that goes completely contrary to what you WANT to belief. I have great empathy for that and respect for the gentlemanly manner by which you put your case. Nevertheless my efforts on this blog is done from a spirit of love, not one of condemnation, and I sense thankfully that you might see it as such. Therefore I have made a special effort in attempting to answer ALL your queries.

(I have reproduced your comment in blue italics.)

mouse, answer my questions from the past post. I’ve put them in here again for your reference. I’m curious too, what does your pastor think of your efforts here?

He is full agreement Freemasonry is no place for a Christian to be involved with for the exact same reasons I postulate on this blog.

Ok, on to your post…

We do not quit, because you choose to continue expounding your narrow-minded (I beg to differ) insinuation that Freemasonry not open to Christianity, and so long as you like to continue, I would like to continue refuting you.

Of course you are welcome to continue and it is not a question that Freemasonry is “not open” to Christianity. It IS open to all who believe in A god, ANY god. The fact is that it is detrimental to a Christian individual who is a member.

You have given your OPINION for why a Christian cannot be a Freemason, you have given YOUR INTERPRETATION of why they cannot be one.

True.

You have not made your case.

And that is YOUR OPINION.

In fact, it seems you are failing to even answer the refutations back to you completely, which is a shame. OK I’m doing my best to rectify that situation right here.

I appreciate your warning me, but really, its more an alarmist rant than with any regard or concern. (OK, I accept that as your opinion.) This is your “cross to bear” and your doing a good job. (Thanx.) If this were with any love, then you’d be more open to dialog and less closed to really looking at what it is you are critiquing. (I am open to dialog and all this IS in LOVE, although I concede it might be difficult to understand and I might seem to be bashful and judgmental. That is regrettable and I would have avoided it if I could.)

Yes, I disregard absolutes. (Your choice, but remember it might limit you to such an extend that you may not be able to see the truth. Is infinity an absolute or is it relative? What about the number ONE? Surely that is an absolute. Or are there means and ways of arguing to cloud reason to such an extend that even THAT is doubtful?) Show me a proof, show me some science, some tangible. i’ve heard the word of God in my ear, but i can’t PROVE IT TO YOU. (I have proven my argument with reference to Scripture more than once. I think I should put it all down on a page and post it separately.) And, I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but Post modernism is a movement to understand MODERNISM, not a cop out to a “new” interpretation of GOD. But i see in your answer that my reply has gotten under your skin a bit and made you a bit tender. (OK, I am not going to debate the meaning of the term postmodernism with you, save to say that I used it in response to your disregard for absolutes. Postmodernism is a (bizarre) philosophical way of arguing around any “point” by arguing the “point” can not be known therefore can not be proven. Arguing in this fashion is like swimming with only one arm. All you manage is to go around in circles with difficulty.

You say:
“If one does not understand something BY CHOICE because it does not suit you, or fit into what YOU WANT, just join the happy crowd that shouts; “it does not exist!” That is FOOL’S PARADISE”
(What I meant there was; “it is so easy to argue – everything is relative (no absolutes) therefore the truth can not be known.)
Isn’t this exactly what your doing when a Freemason says that your wrong?
(NO, if you disagree I accept the fact that you disagree.) You expect some capitulation to what your world or heavenly view is? (No, I don’t. All I do is spread a message that I am happy to debate with you, yet in the end it is your choice whether you accept what I said or not.) Funny you should mention roses, the Rosicrucian angle is a whole ‘nother thing. (I thought about using “smoke” but thought better of it since it might have been interpreted as a pun, and that was not the idea.)

You said:
as I mentioned before. This whole argument; “Can a Christian be a Freemason?” really only concerns Christians and Freemasons.

No, my question was that your position comes from a “devout born-again Christian” position, not just a position of someone who “believes in Christ”. I believe in Christ, but not in the same way that you do, which is the whole foundation of your argument. Your way of the highway… (With Christian I mean a person that had been saved. But there is a deeper perspective as I explain further down.)

I appreciate your willingness to make me quit. This is your house, throw me out if you are feeling uncomfortable at my argument. In the mean time, I’m here because I dislike what you are saying, and refute it, and will continue to do so. I’d also like you to answer all of the items I posted in the previous comment. (No, I am not shutting you out. You remain welcome. I realize the message I have is not welcome but I think (hope) you have already sensed that my intention is not malicious.

Ah-Ha, finally, your definition of what a Christian is..oh wait, no definition…links and fingers to other peoples definitions. And again, judgmental in assuming I’m ignorant for not falling lock step in with you, arm in arm. I don’t buy it “brother”, I think your trying to convince yourself. (What must I convince myself of? No, I do not consider you to be ignorant and I merely referred you to Alan’s site since he is a great Christian and you might find it a useful reference.)

You quoting me, questioning you:
“…Is it just something you “believe”, something you feel strongly about?” “Yes, I admitted to not knowing ALL”

If you don’t know it all, then you don’t know ANYTHING. (Wow! so do you know EVERYTHING? Ouch! So if anybody does not know it all, it means he knows NOTHING? Thats the point of Freemasonry, you don’t know it all, learn as much as you can, find out. What you see as sin is your degree of guilt for something, your need to reach out and tell others how wrong you were, so we must be wrong too. Your right, the choice is mine, and I am comfortable in that choice, and dislike you suggesting otherwise. I reject your perspective from your eyes. Yes, I do. I’d rather find the answers and make you accountable for yours. (Ouch!)

So, finish answering my questions. I’ve put them back here for easy reference.

You:
“Without faith one can not have a close relationship with Jesus”…
As you see it, and through your faith. Someone with a different version of faith, or a different take on the doctrine can easily see it differently.
(Obviously someone with a different faith will see life differently. I see life as a saved Christian, as any saved Christian will see it anywhere in the world.)

You:
“I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody comes to the farther but by me”
Read the second to last word, by me. not through me, not because of me, but by me.
(And the question is? Sorry, I didn’t get it.)

You:
“it IS an absolute”.
This goes back to your faith, your “belief” is predicated on your faith in it.
(I believe faith is an absolute. I have absolute faith in the truth and integrity of the Bible.) If that’s the case, the world was literally created in 6 days and is only 5000 years old, right? (That is another debate all on its own. I don’t want to go there now, if that is OK with you.) Christ started his church, which became the catholic church, right? Are you a catholic? If Christ started it, shouldn’t you follow that path, why have you deviated? (You made a few erroneous assumptions here. Yes, the catholic church did develop out of the Christian Church, it did not BECOME it, (as if that is all that is left of it), and NO I am not a catholic.

You:
“What is MY faith? Simply that Jesus is Lord and that He died for our sins.”.
How do you know, besides a 1600 year old book that tells you that’s what happened?
(One believes by faith. God has planted it in all of us yet each of us has the choice to embrace it or to reject and renounce it. Those of us who have accepted Christ have Him in us and His spirit is in us. Faith is a gift of the Spirit.) What if the part that was excised in the council of Nicea said something different? (Those who choose not to believe have a multitude of arguments and stories they use to silence their own consciences.) I don’t dispute your faith, I think it is a beautiful thing. What troubles me is your inability to see beyond what you believe to be absolute. Its judgmental and contradictory to the teachings of the bible. You forget that God himself, in the book you put your faith into, says that his house will be called a house of prayer for All people. It doesn’t just say for Christians, or Just for Christians that believe XYZ. it says “ALL PEOPLE”, but then maybe I’m reading it wrong. (His house is indeed for ALL people – not ALL religions!)

You refer to “HIM” frequently, is this HIM God, or Jesus, or in this instance are you blurring the difference and they are one and the same? (I use the term interchangeably.)

You:
“What I am saying is that one can not be a devout born-again Christian as well as being a Freemason simply because Freemasonry has unfortunately some deeply entrenched practices that are anti-Christian”
OK, so then your position then is not as a “Christian” but a “devout born-again Christian”, right? Whats the difference in a good Episcopalian Christian, or a devout Roman Catholic Christian, or a serpent dancing pentecostal? Do you separate yourself from other Christians?

No. I believe a saved Christian is a person who accepted Jesus into his heart. There are many who call themselves Christians but have not made that decision yet. Don’t loose sight of the issue.

You:
“I definitely do not state that I know that at all. What I am saying is the following; Freemasonry contains and embraces certain anti-Christian practices that is an affront to God and to my view (and MANY others) this poses a serious risk to ones eternal destiny.”

OK, this is a long one… If you “know” something is an affront, you know this, then how can you say in the same sentence that “to my view (and many others) this poses a serious risk”. But you just said you don’t know this? Is it just something you “believe”, something you feel strongly about?

I hope the latest post on this blog will answer this question for you.

mwubuntu

Thank you for your comment. As you would have picked up elsewhere on this blog; I also have a high regard for all the masons I have ever met. They are all great people. I don’t have anything against any one of them. It is the doctrine of freemasonry that I have a problem with and that I believe God has a problem with. That is why I run this blog. To warn you of exactly that!

And, good heavens! Why should anyone attack you for giving us your point of view. That is your prerogative and thanks for taking part.

I hope the next post will answer a lot of your questions.

God Bless.

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2 Responses to “Back at last”

  1. Neo Says:

    “It is the doctrine of freemasonry that I have a problem with and that I believe God has a problem with.”

    I find this line extremely disturbing on your part- you have a problem with masonry therefore God has a problem with masonry. Using your logic: I have a problem with Religious Zealots (Islamic, Christian, doesn’t matter) therefore God has a problem with zealots. I consider you a zealot, twisting the Word to make a point and water down the larger messege of the good news, therefore God has a problem with you- see the fallicy?

    False Prophet, under the guise of piety and humility: Who are you to read the mind of God? Who are you to judge others? Who are you to bear false witness against you neighbors by repeating long debunked myths and innuendo? Who are you to not turn the other cheek? Who are you, false prophet, to ignore the Golden Rule for the sake of gaining a following and fame on the internet?

    I’m sure Mr. Smith of the Mormons said the exact same thing before he started Mormonism. It’s funny how much this reminds me of some Christian cult leader (Heaven’s Gate for instance) rhetoric. As such I will discontinue reading your blog as you have exposed yourself to me as little more than a cult leader looking for a soapbox to stand on.
    -Feel free to “moderate” this post, because we both know- you must keep your illusions intact- can’t have anyone else’s viewpoint read now can we?.

  2. Neo Says:

    Just as I suspected, unwillingness to see the other point of view is yet another sign of a cult leader- bend the masses to your will and your will alone while calling yourself a messenger of God- CULT LEADER!

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