In reply to PEACH

Hallo Peach and to all of you following this debate.

Thank you for your long and thought provoking comment. You seem like a decent, upright and intelligent gentleman and I honor you for that. I will therefor do my best to reply to ALL your answers.

Peach wrote in his comment  to the post “A Matter of Viewpoint” below, the following;

“I find it interesting that you did not really answer the question of the poster.”

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I take it the question in view is the one posed by  “stlmetrojobs”  in his comment

The question was: “…Back to the issue of the military. Our military is 100% volunteer,: “if I signed up and served my tour of duty and discovered that other people pray to other gods or that we are in an unjust war and I reenlist is that looked down upon by God?”

So following that logic are not every enlisted man and woman in this country who has served their full term and reenlisted in violation of Gods wishes?

If this is indeed the question in view, it is put in two parts.

To do justice to this question(s) is not very easy because of the way it is structured. It presupposes a hypothetical instance of an individual that “signed up and served a tour of duty” (presumably in the military) and then he discovers that other people (presumably some of his colleague co-soldiers) pray to other gods, alternatively (I reckon for the sake of his argument) he discovers that the war his country is fighting, in which military he is enlisted, is an unjust war.

Already there is a problem here since he mentions two alternatives in the argument, and they do not seem mutual in the context of the issue under discussion.

Then he mentions that this hypothetical individual “reenlist”. This implies that the individual had, upon discovering “either” of the alternatives mentioned, resigned as a result thereof.

The question is then, and I interpret, “Would God disapprove (look down upon) this individual’s reenlisting into that organization (the military), knowing of either or both these alternate discoveries mentioned above.

And here is the problem; in context the two alternatives are not mutual or interchangeable! They both require a separate answer.

Lets take the second alternative first. If such a hypothetical soldier reenlist into the military to fight an “unjust” war and he is aware of the fact that is it an unjust war and he has the option not to reenlist (i.e. he is not forced by law to enlist or reenlist), then in my view it would be the wrong thing to do. I think God would disapprove.

As for the first alternative mentioned, I do NOT think that God would disapprove. I do not think that it is wrong in God’s eyes if we happen to find ourselves in a situation where others are praying to other gods. How can it be helped? How can that individual be blamed for any wrong doing?

In this instance I presume the military organization in view is that of the US. The US government, though founded by God fearing individuals and steeped in godly principles have over time, regrettably,  moved away from them, as you well know. The US government has become completely secular and although it allows its citizens freedom of religion, it does not endorse any. In the light of this I am convinced (as is indeed mentioned in Scripture) that our Lord will judge the governments of this world for their actions when He returns. He will not judge us individually because of what our governments did. We will be judged on what we did as individuals.

You rightly mentioned elsewhere that our Lord Jesus Christ will judge us on what is in our hearts. And in that sense remember that we are COMMANDED to love the Lord with ALL our minds, and strength and ALL our HEART. This love is a matter of choice and personal commitment. It requires complete surrender.

The second part of his question was;

“….So following that logic are not every enlisted man and woman in this country who has served their full term and reenlisted in violation of Gods wishes?”

The mention of the word “logic” here brings a smile to my face. But in all dearness and fairness to our friend I will answer with a straight face; of course not Dummy! 🙂

“He wasn’t asking you for an answer as to what goes on in a Masonic lodge and how he should react. He asked you how he should or you would react when the things you are claiming to be at odds with Christianity in a Masonic lodge are done in the rest of the secular world.”

I trust you find answer sufficient just above and below.

I’ll ask again and please answer the questions directly and plainly this time. How should we react when a prayer is said in a secular environment and we don’t know the religious persuasion or beliefs of those around us? For example at a sporting event? 60 thousand people at a football game asked to have a moment of silence or to pray for one reason or another are bound to have some Hindu’s or Jew’s or Muslims that don’t accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Is the NFL or NCAA at odds with Christianity?

Okay, let me see if I understand your question. You are, once again hypothetically, in a big crowd at a sport stadium, say at a football game. Some circumstance leads to the crowd being requested to observe a moment of silence OR (once again that unfortunate use of an alternative) to pray for some reason or other. Members of all faiths are present in the crowd, many of whom have not accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Are the governing sports bodies at odds with Christianity?

No on both counts.

It would have been wrong if for instance the reason for the moment of silence was in remembrance of say a deceased  sports hero that happened to be Muslim and the head of the NFL entreated the whole crowd to pray to Allah. For a Christian THAT would be intolerable.

If for instance a Christian would have taken the podium and led the crowd in Christian prayer, as a Christian, that would have been no problem for me. Yet I know that all the persons of other faiths would have been offended. But we know that we serve the TRUE GOD and though they would have been offended, our hearts should go out to them, since they are unsaved and in jeopardy of eternal damnation.

But there you were, in the crowd and during the moment of silence every member of the crowd prayed, some to YHWH some to Jesus some to Allah. For me as a Christian, there is no problem. I can not help it that those others have chosen to pray to other gods. I will pray for them and witness to them the best I can. I also do not think that God would condone me for being there.

Now the situation of being in a crowd of people wherein there happen to be unbelievers differs greatly from the one of being a sworn-in member of an organization that does NOT put God of the Bible FOREMOST.

If one had for instance to lay down an oath of allegiance and obedience (as in Masonry) to the governing body of the NFL before entrance into their sport stadia is allowed and before the start of every game a communal prayer to a universal deity is made, I would be hard pressed to become a sporting fan. This however, is not the case.

When I played high school football here in Texas we would have a prayer after the game led by our coach. I know for a fact that some of they players who prayed were not praying to Jesus but were praying to the god of the Jews or even Muslims. Does that mean Texas high school football is from the devil?


I am old enough to remember when prayer was allowed in public schools. Before lunch each day we kids all bowed our heads and recited “God is great, God is good, let us thank him for our food.”. Not everyone who was in my class saying that prayer with me was Christian. Some were Jewish, some Muslim, some were even Budhist. By your argument The State of Texas and the Texas Public School system was at odds with Christianity and we should all denounce our citizenship.

No, for the same reasons I mentioned above.


I am to assume because you failed to answer the posters question to you that you are in favor of taking prayer out of school.

No, most definitely not. I think that was the saddest day in US history when that happened.

Otherwise these poor kids would fall into the trap of sin by saying group prayers with children who may differ with them religiously. Is that your position?

I believe saying a group prayer to Jesus is pleasing to the Lord and saying a group prayer to any other god or “universal” deity is detestable to Him.

Is it also your position that anyone who uses US currency or coinage that says “In God We Trust” is in a state of sin and in need of salvation because our money doesn’t specify that the “God” on our money is Jesus Christ?


I’m assuming that you think one nation under God should be stricken from the pledge of allegiance for the same reasons?


If you do not believe these things then please answer the questions.

I have tried my best.

Our country is founded on a principle of religious freedom and toleration. Our government uses God in our money, our national monuments, our pledges.

Freedom is one thing, tolerance is another. Your constitution calls for “freedom” of religion and expression. The word tolerant or tolerance is not used once!

Go check it out.

You are right, your government uses God in your money, “In God we Trust”. But for how long? I hear there are moves afoot to remove that from your currency.

Our government says prayers to a deity not identified as Jesus Christ because by law we are a country open to men of all faiths and creeds.

Your government, though founded by godly and God fearing men upon godly principles have over time become completely secular and do not subscribe to any religion, though it is forced, in terms of your constitution, to honor your right of freedom of religion.

God also gives us that freedom. He wants us to come to Him freely by our own volition.

Our government has rituals in our military and in our courts of law as well as oaths oftentimes invoking the name of God though not specific as to which God. Is it your assertion then that the great many men and women who have given up their lives in defense of this country did so in vain because they gave it up for a country of godless lies? Is this your assertion?

Unfortunately I have no knowledge or information about the “rituals” you mention, so I can not comment on those. I have great respect for the men who gave their lives in defense of your country and do not think they died in vain. A country is a sovereign entity and the governments thereof will be accountable to God one day. We as citizens are compelled by law as well as by Scripture to be obedient to our rulers. If they, our rulers err in God’s sight, it will be reckoned from them.

I believe whether you realize it or not this IS your assertion.

You are mistaken in that belief.

I believe you would do better work for Christ by witnessing the good news of our Lord to non-believers rather than telling lies and misrepresenting Freemasonry.

I do indeed do lots of work in witnessing to others as well as other forms of evangelism. My work on this blog is just a small part of it.

I made many friends in Masonry, many of them are still my friends.

I do not do this blog to condemn or to judge others.

I do it out of love for my fellow brethren whom I sincerely believe to be misled into a notion that they are doing good, yet are unwittingly fallen into the clutches of darkness. They do not see this and will not accept it because I believe they are blinded spiritually to the truth of this matter. I believe that this blindness is imparted to them when they accept the blindfold in their First Degree initiation.

Jesus said in John 14:6 that He is the Truth the Way and the Life. Freemasonry tries to make you believe IT is the way.

Jesus said in John 8:12 that He is the Light of the world. Freemasonry claims IT is the light (by implication, the Light of the world)

Who do you believe?

Jesus said in Luke 16 we can not follow two masters. If we want to follow him we must follow him exclusively with everything we have, fully commited.

No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (Luke 16:13)

May our Lord Bless you with His love and Grace,



26 Responses to “In reply to PEACH”

  1. Dcomer Says:

    No, my example of the military did not presume that a soldier resigned and reenlisted. I am asking if they re enlist after their tour of duty is over. You know that a member of the military reenlists every few years as their prior obligation has ended.

    Peach laid my argument out better than I did and you failed to answer those questions. Your logic cannot stop at the lodge and must include all the events I brought forth and all the examples that peach brought to the table. If it doesn’t then you are a hypocrite who is picking and choosing where to apply Gods word and where not to.

  2. Peach Says:

    Ok, where do I begin? First the questions that I said you didn’t answer were the ones in the original post A Matter of Viewpoint as well as the others. You have chosen to answer some of them in your last comment and as myself and others assumed you have a hypocritical application of Gods word as well as a misguided belief about Masonic philosophy. Instead of typing out a long diatribe i’ll cut to the chase. NOWHERE in Freemasonry does a mason pray to any God other than the God of his chosen faith. Neither myself nor any other Mason has sworn an oath to pray to a universal deity as you have irresponsibly and incorrectly stated. NEVER has Freemasonry directed or suggested that any Mason pray to any God other than the God of their chosen faith. NOWHERE has Freemasonry taught that the individual Freemason must view all religions and Gods as equal. You seem to have the right idea about religious tolerance when it comes to a sporting event or prayer in other secular situations but don’t apply the same well thought logic to Freemasonry that is hypocracy. see from your answers that you just don’t understand Masonic philosophy and you are under the misguided and incorrect belief that Freemasonry is a religion, IT IS NOT. Nor do Masons pray to a universal deity anymore thanI the hypothetical leader of a prayer at a secular gathering who starts the prayer by saying “Father” or “God of Heaven and Earth” does. To say anything other than this shows that while you may have some scriptural knowledge your knowledge of Masonic philosophy is severely lacking.

    • anothermouse Says:

      List the questions and I will answer them.

      Masons name the god they are praying to the Great Architect of the Universe. To the Muslim it is Allah, to the Jew it is YHWH, to the Christian it is Jesus Christ. So, a Masonic prayer is a place where all and any religious deity may be called upon, simultaneously, as the prayer is said or presented and you just fill in the blank, so to speak, depending on your own persuasion or beliefs, am I not correct?

      Now here is the thing. If your view of God and religion is so shallow as not to see the problem herein, then you have indeed a problem of Biblical scale, and I am not being derisive when I say that.

      God will not be mocked! Praying to the most Holy God in that manner is blasphemous to say the least. If you don’t see it, you have a problem!
      The very fact that this is exactly the way Freemasons pray proves to you that they view all religions as equal – none is superior to the other and all are good, equally good. And discussion around the matter is not allowed in Lodge.
      If all this goes over your head you have a BIG surprise coming!

      I was a Mason for 15 years. I know all about its philosophies.

      • Peach Says:

        To quote you from above, “But there you were, in the crowd and during the moment of silence every member of the crowd prayed, some to YHWH some to Jesus some to Allah. For me as a Christian, there is no problem. I can not help it that those others have chosen to pray to other gods. I will pray for them and witness to them the best I can. I also do not think that God would condone me for being there.”.

        That is a pretty logical well thought out answer. I’m not sure why you don’t have same attitude in a Masonic lodge meeting. Here let’s change a few words.

        But there you were, in the lodge meeting and during the prayer every member of the crowd prayed, some to YHWH some to Jesus some to Allah. For me as a Christian, there is no problem. I can not help it that those others have chosen to pray to other gods. I will pray for them and witness to them the best I can. I also do not think that God would condemn me for being there.

        That wasn’t so hard was it?….

        You my brother are a hypocrite and probably have some personal axe to grind with Freemasonry beyond the scope of this blog. Your claim of 15 years of Freemasonry does not mean that you have the first clue about Masonic philosophy, and it’s quite obvious that you don’t. The fact that you believe Freemasonry to be a religion when all Masonic Monitors and most members will tell you it’s NOT.

        Your understanding of Christianity is fire and brimstone. You seem to believe that regardless of whether a person accepts Jesus as his/her personal savior, live a good upright life believing they are doing the right things morally and spiritually and are generally a good Christian person. You say if they zig when they should zag that they are sentenced to hell regardless of what God sees in their heart. With this brother I cannot agree.

        You make such an issue with the prayer in a lodge. I’m going to give you a treat. Below are prayers used for opening and closing the lodge in my Lodge. As you should know Masonic prayers are not secret and are available for anyone to read.

        Prayer at opening:

        Most holy and glorious Lord God, the Great Architect of the Universe: the giver of all good gifts and graces: Thou hast promised that where two or three are gathered together in Thy name, Thou wilt be in the midst of them. In Thy name we assemble, most humbly beseeching Thee to bless us in all our undertakings, that we may know and serve Thee aright, and that all our actions may tend to Thy glory and to our advancement in knowledge and virtue; and we beseech Thee, O Lord God, to bless this our present assembling, and to illuminate our minds by the divine precepts of Thy Holy Word, and teach us to walk in the light of Thy countenance; and when the trials of our probationary state are over, be admitted into The Temple “not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.” Amen.

        Prayer at closing:

        Brethren–Before I declare the Lodge closed, let us unite in humbly acknowledging our dependence on the Most High. May His right hand be as a shield and buckler to us against the assaults of our enemies; and, at the final day, may each and every one of us be raised, through the merits of the Lion of the tribe of Judah, to the celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Grand Master forever presides–forever reigns. Amen.

        Those prayers are not to a universal deity as you have suggested.

        The first prayer is obviously a prayer to Jesus Christ, it references Jesus’s words from Matthew 18:20…

        The second references the Tribe of Judah which was started by Jacob. Both King David and Jesus were from this tribe. The Lion of the tribe of Judah is Jesus Christ. In this prayer we hope to be raised by the merits of Jesus Christ. Both of these references can be found in The Holy Bible. By the way, that’s the same Holy Bible that sits open on the alter during a Masonic Lodge meeting and is called by masons “The Great Light in Masonry”.

      • anothermouse Says:

        The issue of whether or not Freemasonry is a religion or not is not important. You want to believe it is not, that is fine, I don’t agree, but won’t argue the point, it is not important. What is important is this; Yes I know all about the wonderful, well intended philosophies of Masonry and that is great, but where those philosophies and traditions clash with my heavenly Father and His expressed will, so clearly laid out in Scripture, there is a problem.
        This problem puts one that is serious about following Christ in a dilemma; one has to make a choice! You can’t have both and still please the Lord.
        If one does not perceive this dilemma, one has not given it enough thought or are not a serious follower of Christ. There is unfortunately no middle road here.
        Regarding the opening and closing prayers you quoted, if you say those are to our Lord Jesus, how do you explain that to your Muslim brother next to you in Lodge?
        I know that Masons call the Bible the Great Light of Freemasonry. It is often also referred to as the Book of the Holy Law or the Book of the Holy Writ or the Holy Book. The problem that a serious Christian would have with this is that the Holy Book can also be the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita. The Koran denies Christ expressly and the Gita is considered by many to be mostly Satanic! Of course, if you are not really serious about Jesus, then this won’t phase you.

        Mar 7:6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME.
        Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men— the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
        Mar 7:9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.

        Col_2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.


      • Peach Says:

        In regards to the opening and closing prayers and how I explain to my Muslim brother i’ll quote you because I like your answer.

        “For me as a Christian, there is no problem. I can not help it that those others have chosen to pray to other gods. I will pray for them and witness to them the best I can. I also do not think that God would condone me for being there.”

        As far as sitting in lodge while a Koran or other religious text is on the alter. Personally a haven’t had to confront that issue. But if I found offense with anything in a lodge I would not sit in that lodge.

      • anothermouse Says:

        The two situations are not comparable, no matter how much you wish they were, unfortunately. The issue around having the Koran there is that Freemasonry condones it. You may never actually be in a Lodge that uses the Koran on the altar but it can happen if the situation arise. The point is that Freemasonry condones that practice and by doing so it places the Bible and the Koran on an equal status. A real Christian would be uncomfortable to be associated to an organization that has equal regard for the Koran as it has for the Bible and would thus ask himself’ do I really want to be here?

    • Peach Says:

      I’m not sure what country your from but I can see from your responses that if you had your way, your country and mine and every other country in the world would not “condone” any other religion being practiced other than Christianity. As myself and many others on this site have argued Freemasonry is a secular organization (you yourself said wether it was a religion or not was not important, although Freemasonry teaches that it is not a religion) that allows freedom of religion, so to speak. (it does not allow satanism has you have said Freemasonry expels satanists) Just as the U.S. does. As a matter of fact it is widely known that the founding fathers of the U.S. a great many of whom were Freemasons used the teaching and practice of Freemasonry as a template when determining what principles this country would be founded on, such as freedom of religion and the separation of church and state. These are principles that I’m sure are not held in favor by the church. Although most churches will not openly admit this. If you and many other so called Christians had your way not only would Freemasonry not exist as we know it, but the U.S. would not as well. If you had your way Christianity would be the only religion “condoned” by Freemasonry and the state. Anyone found practicing another religion would be rounded up and some sort of punishment would be administered or they would be interred in some camp or killed. This attitude is what led to WW-II concentration camps as Stlmetrojobs stated in his argument to you. The next step would be determining what branch of Chrisianity would be allowed. Before you know it Catholics and Protestant demnominations would be killing each other depending on who was in power just as they did in Europe for hundreds and hundreds of years and in many areas still do. I can find plenty of scripture in the Bible just as the Roman church did in Europe and many Protestant religions did here in new world prior to the countries founding to support this killing. Then we would start a new Crusade against the non-Christian religions. Guess what? That’s exactly what the radical Islamic fundamentalist are doing in regards to the Koran when condoning terrorism and the Roman church did when condoning the crusades and the inquisition.

      The fact is many religions and Christian denominations and all repressive regimes denounce Freemasonry because it promotes free thinking and is a hinderence to their ability to control the populace. Thanks be to God that I do not live in such a country or belong to a Christian denomination that shares this view.

      Jesus Christ’s ministry was a ministry of Love for all, not of separation from and condemnation of those who believe differently than you.

      Matthew 5:43-48  “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,  so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.  For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?  You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

  3. Peach Says:

    NOWHERE does Masonry teach that the fraternity is a path to salvation. To say otherwise is a lie. When Christian man is made a Mason in many if not most lodges he is presented with the King James Version of the Holy Bible and is told “Masonry, therefore, opens this Book upon its alter with a command to each of its members that he diligently study Theron to learn the way to Eternal Life.”. NOWHERE does it say that Freemasonry is the way to heaven…

    • anothermouse Says:

      As a Christian, how do you deal with Hiram Abiff in Masonic ritual? I implore you to read this article that might persuade you to see the truth of the matter.



      • Peach Says:

        I’m not sure what you mean. If you know the Hiramic legend in the ritual then you know he was killed then his body was raised by the strong grip… I will not say much more for as you know initiation ritual is secret. But I will say that knowledge of Jesus Christ as The Lion of the Tribe of Judah will give you a deeper understanding of the end of the Hiramic legend. I doubt that in your 15 years of Masonry you ever realized that the strong grip was a Christian reference.

    • anothermouse Says:

      The Masonic plan of Salvation is explained in the symbolism of the white lamb skin apron presented to the Entered Apprentice Mason. I quote from the ritual;

      Q. Why were you presented with a lambskin or white linen apron, which is the
      badge of a Mason?
      A. Because the lamb, in all ages, has been deemed an emblem of innocence; he,
      therefore, who wears the lambskin as a badge of a Mason is thereby continually
      reminded of that purity of life and conduct which is essentially necessary to his
      gaining admission into that celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of
      the universe presides.

      Also read this article

      • Peach Says:

          When we take on the Lambskin Apron, we answer a very important question that was asked in a famous hymn.  “Are you washed in the Blood, the soul-cleansing Blood of the Lamb?  Are your garments spotless?  Are they white as snow?  Are you washed in the Blood of the Lamb?”  Yes, indeed, our garments are white as snow.  When a Mason is initiated into the Entered Apprentice Degree, they are given the Lambskin Apron as an emblem of innocence, and told to wear it “without spot or blemish” to the honor and glory of the Craft.  

        For the Christian Mason, the Lambskin takes on the significance of an outward sign of inward faith.  The Christian Mason is one who believes that his life and his faith are strengthened by the like-minded brotherhood, as well as the beautiful symbolism of the Craft.  This outward sign is another way that the declaration “I believe in Christ” is made, and made proudly.  Although there are things, such as the grips and words, that we keep private amongst the Brethren, the Lambskin is not kept private.  It is worn proudly in public for cornerstone layings and funerals both, where the world can see. A Mason is not properly clothed in his Lodge without it. 

        Any claim that the apron presentation teaches that our earthly deeds will gain us admission to heaven is completely false.

        Can a man have a pure heart without accepting Christ? Of course not!

        Can an evil man who does not conduct himself according to Gods command enter the kingdom of heaven? Of course not!

        How does one achieve this purity of heart and uprightness of conduct? He starts by accepting Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. Once he has done this he will delight in Gods will and walk in his ways. Then and only then can he achieve that purity of heart and uprightness of conduct so essentially necessary to gain admission to Gods kingdom.

      • anothermouse Says:

        You as a Christian might have processed the lambskin symbolism to what you want it to be to your own mind, but that is not what the ritual teaches. Remember it is universal and must be acceptable to all faiths. It clearly states that admission to heaven is earned by good works, and as a Christian you and I should disagree strongly with that teaching, since it goes completely against what Scripture tells us.
        Why be associated to something that denies our Lord and goes completely against what He teaches us.
        Again it is the issue of two masters. Whom to follow? Jesus Himself said one can not follow both!

      • Peach Says:

        We both agree that salvation is a gift of God and that good works without faith do not get you to heaven…

        However, the apron presentation does NOT “clearly state that admission to heaven is earned by good works” . Can you not use the brain that the good Lord gave you to think for yourself? Or can you only regurgitate what you have erroneously been taught?

        In the book of James he writes “What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food.  If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” James 2:14-17

        Is James saying that works gain you admission to heaven? Of course not! Good works are a result of faith. When Christ works in your life the Holy Spirit moves you to do good works. If you are truly faithful and follow Jesus you will achieve that purity of heart and uprightness of conduct, and THAT (faith) will get you to heaven. The good works are simply how you show your faith.

        I feel it’s a shame that you were not strong enough in your faith and knowledge of Christ and the Bible to study the apron presentation and understand what it means for a Christian. I hope you dont misinterperate James the way you have the apron presentation. If you can’t understand the apron presentation in Freemasonry how will you ever be able to witness to someone about the book of James in the Bible.

        I’m guessing you would have prefered if Masonry had plainly said Jesus Christ is the way and the truth and the life. Certainly you learned in your 15 years of Freemasonry that our ritual is is veiled in allegory. Freemasonry is meant to give you a framework to find truth also called light, by study and meditation prayer. Freemasonry does not spell it out for you. It directs you to study the Bible to learn how to apply the MORAL PHILOSOPHIES veiled in the symbols and rituals to your faith. If it spelled it out for you it would no longer be FREEMASONRY. It would then be teaching a dogma and would THEN be a religion. It is not Fremasonry’s place to teach dogma. That is the duty of the Church.

        I am pleased that you have found Christ. I just think its a shame that you were unable to understand what masonry teaches and apply it as a Christian before you allowed someone who also does not understand its teachings to corrupt your understanding.

  4. Peach Says:

    I find it disturbing that you say Freemasons cant be Christians. In Matthew 23:13 our Lord says “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.”.
    You say that you don’t pass judgement on your brothers. But you do. You have judged all Freemasons and said that unless they repent they will not enter into the kingdom of heaven. You claim to know God’s “viewpoint”. The truth is in the word and the wird says in 1st Corinthians 2:11 “For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knows no man but the spirit of God.”. And Jeremiah 17:10 “I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve.”.

    I’m more disturbed by your misrepresentation of Gods word than I am your lack of understanding and thus misrepresentation of Masonic philosophy.

    You say a Freemason cannot be a Christian? I say you know not of what you speak. I am justified by my faith in Jesus Christ. I’m am first and foremost a Christian!!! I am saved by the grace of Jesus Christ through faith in him. I am also a Freemason and Freemasonry has not changed nor deminished that salvation by grace through faith. I am living proof that you are wrong on this issue. Do not pretend to conseive what is in any mans heart or Gods mind.. I’m sure you know Matthew 7. You should probably re-read the entire chapter. Verse 22-23 might apply to you, it says “On that day many will say Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? And then will I declare to them “”I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.””. I am a Christian and a Freemason, I eat fruit from the trees that bare good fruit.

    • anothermouse Says:

      You know what, Matt 7:22-23 really scares me too, and I think we should all hold it in reverent awe. Is it not written, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom?

      The Word compels us to search our hearts, are we really of the faith?

      2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.

      Then it advises us to work out our own salvation in fear and trembling! (Php 2:12)

      So, how sure are you really? How convinced are you that Freemasonry is OK with God?

      Jas 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

      Ask the Lord, He will tell you.



      • Peach Says:

        “So, how sure are you really? How convinced are you that Freemasonry is OK with God?”

        Completely!!! Although I continue to pray to our Lord for wisdom and guidance, as we all should, to make sure we are following his will. I know that I am saved by his sacrifice and my faith. I am a poor sinner doing my best to walk in his ways, and when the day of judgement comes I will be held accountable for my deeds but more importantly for what is in my heart which he knows. The Holy Spirit works in my life on a continuous basis. As a matter of fact I believe it is the Holy Spirit that has moved me to comment on and debate you on these many important issues and beliefs. I hope you are being mindful of the Holy Spirit in your life…

        May the Peace of the Lord be with you.


  5. Peach Says:

    I pray that your love will overflow more and more, and that you will keep growing in knowledge and understanding through Christ Jesus.


  6. Peach Says:

    When did Masonry claim that it is the light of the world? Yet another misrepresentation or lie, take your pick. The Great Light in Masonry is the Holy Bible.

    • anothermouse Says:

      Masonic ritual beholds the candidate as searching for “light”. He is then given this “light” in the first degree and progressively more “light” is added as he progress through the degrees. What is this light?

      It purports to be a guide of some sort through the life of a mason that he is supposed to follow.

      Masons regard non-masons (those outside of the order) as “profane” and in “Darkness” and themselves as being “in the light” or “of the light”. Doesn’t that sound a bit odd to you?

      Now for a serious Christian that is tantamount to blasphemy, because we know that Jesus said that He is the Light of the world.

      • Peach Says:

        If you had learned anything in your 15 years of masonry you would understand that when the blindfold is removed and you are brought to “light” that you are kneeling in front of an alter upon which sits the THE GREAT LIGHT IN MASONRY!!!!

  7. A . T. Mitchell Says:

    My comment is in regard to the starrment that JESUS is not mentioned in the rituals of freemasonry. Freemasonry and or a great part of the rituals come from the Ancient Egyptian Pyramid system from which freemasonry was derived from, predates Jesus by thousands of years. That’s primarily why there is no mention of him in the rituals

    • anothermouse Says:

      There is a theory that Masonry dates from the times of the Piramides but it is a theory only as there is no proof to back it up. The most commonly accepted theory for the origin of Freemasonry is that it started in the Middle Ages amongst the practicing Masons that built the Cathedrals in Europe.
      And besides, even if it was so, it does not change anything to the argument that a Christian should not be a Freemason!


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